I'm glad you wrote about this, Ruhie. In my book, From Grief to Grace, I explained that the 5 stages of grief were intended for the terminally ill, not for everyone.
Thank you so much for reading and sharing your thoughts, Jeannie! It means a lot to know this resonated with you. It's a shame that the original context behind the 5 stages is so often misunderstood, which can leave those of us grieving wondering if we're doing something wrong when we don't follow the 'order'. I didn’t realise you’d written a book! Now that I know, it makes perfect sense :) I'd love to check out From Grief to Grace — it sounds like something I’d really connect with ✨
Hi Ruhie! YES! I would love to have a bigger conversation with you sometime about grief. I am now thinking it would be great to have a sort of roundtable discussion with @Susan Kuenzi , @Lynn Reilly , and @Jane Duncan Rogers sometime. Maybe via Zoom later this year? I’d have to see if these ladies would be interested in that, but I am seeing a lot of great information about grief and moving through grief from so many nuanced perspectives that it seems to me a bigger conversation is warranted and needed. What do you think?
Great. Maybe we can start a group email? I know Substack Chat doesn’t have the option for group conversations, so everyone tagged here would have to agree to share their emails with me.
Thank you for the clear, simple explanation of what Kubler-Ross' stages are and aren't. When I read an article or book on grief and the author misrepresents her work, I tend to discount the rest of what they say. I understand why people want to believe grief is linear and predictable. Human beings like simple models. Our brains crave predictability, which is one reason we have so much trouble with grief. As you said, our feelings come and go seemly at random, often when we are completely unprepared for them.
My biggest problem with the 5 stages is the misunderstanding that once you finish one, you never go backwards, when really grief is two steps forward, one back. I assume this is also true with anticipatory grief. Just because I accept my new reality today, doesn't mean I won't get slapped right back into denial or anger tomorrow.
Thank you for such a thoughtful comment, Donna! You’ve captured exactly why the five stages is widely misunderstood — we want simple answers, but grief doesn't work that way. That two steps forward, one step back pattern feels so real for so many of us. It’s a reminder that grief is messy and unpredictable, and that’s okay. I really appreciate you sharing your perspective here and adding to this important conversation 🙏🏼✨
I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking the 5 stages is...if not unhelpful, an incomplete framework. I have a section in my book where I talk about acceptance and one of the chapters is about how when I went through the 5 stages re: my disease, I oscillated between them constantly. I had never heard of the Dual Process Model before but that makes more sense!
Chris, thank you — I’m really glad this landed with you! I’ve always appreciated how honestly and thoughtfully you write about your own experiences, so your words mean a lot. I hadn’t heard of the Dual Process Model until a while ago either, but it really struck a chord with me. It just fits the reality of grief so much better — especially that constant oscillation you describe which I really relate to. That's so exciting about your book! Do you mean the one you recently finished writing? I can't wait to read it when it’s out. I have no doubt it will speak to so many people 🙏🏼
I'm so glad this line was meaningful to you, Ba! There is so much misunderstanding out there that healing means we "move on" and "get over it". But how can we move on when that person was so important to us and such a big part of our lives? It's impossible. We carry them in our hearts always and we never stop missing them. And yet, we keep living. Slowly but surely, we build a life they would be proud of — and more than that, one that is fulfilling for ourselves ❤️
I’m really glad this resonated with you, Tabitha! There’s so much misunderstanding around the 5 stages of grief, and it means a lot to know this piece helped bring some clarity. Thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts 🙏🏼🫶🏽
I talk a lot about grief in my Substack Hands On Nursing in a Germ Factory. I started it about 2 months after my middle daughter died. I would say my grief journey looks a lot more like the "stages of grief" right hand chaotic journey through the 5 stages.
Although, anger has had little to do with my journey and instead sadness, longing and missing are a much larger part than depression. Having attended several Kubler-Ross inservice trainings as a young nurse, first when I was doing Pediatric Oncology nursing and later Rehab Nursing, I was fully aware that her linear journey was meant for anticipatory grief of someone who knew they were dying.
Mostly what I took from Kubler-Ross's stages was that I would experience various feelings or "stages." They would come and go, sometimes overlapping, never in any order, rather it would be messy and ok to lean into whatever feeling I'm feeling in that moment. That I, a traditionally impatient person, would need patience with my process.
I would agree, once past the intense pain of my daughter's death, I started the oscillating back and for between loss and learning how to live without her. Still, 19-months later, I sometimes succumb to deep sadness, longing and missing her. But these feelings last for moments, not hours or days.
Thank you for sharing such a personal and honest reflection, Nancy, and I’m so sorry for the loss of your daughter. I also relate strongly to the chaotic "stages" picture on the right! Grief is so individual — even when we know the models, the feelings don’t follow a neat path. I appreciate how you describe that back-and-forth between loss and figuring out how to live without those we've lost. That’s something a lot of people don’t talk about enough. And absolutely, learning to be patient with ourselves through all that is such a tough but important part of healing. I am so grateful to hear your story and insights here — it’s a powerful reminder that grief isn’t one-size-fits-all 🙏🏼💛
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, V.! I really appreciate hearing from others who are also navigating grief in their own ways. You’re absolutely right that no single model can ever fully capture how complex and deeply personal loss really is. My aim was to explore how this widely-known framework came about, how it can help some people make sense of parts of their grief journey, while also recognising its limitations and offering a different way of thinking about it. I’d love to hear more about what approaches have worked for you beyond models — what’s felt real or helpful in your experience. Grief varies so much from person to person, and learning from different perspectives helps us understand it better. Thanks again for being part of the conversation!
That sounds like a meaningful project. There’s definitely space for more conversations and perspectives on grief, especially ones that explore shared experiences. Wishing you all the best as you continue working on it!
No simple model of the human mind can ever be truly accurate. But human brains crave predictability, so we keep creating them. There's a saying in science: All models are wrong, but some are useful.
Thanks Donna, I couldn't agree with you more! There is so much truth in that saying. We recognise their limitations, take what is useful and leave the rest, right?
I'm glad you wrote about this, Ruhie. In my book, From Grief to Grace, I explained that the 5 stages of grief were intended for the terminally ill, not for everyone.
Thank you so much for reading and sharing your thoughts, Jeannie! It means a lot to know this resonated with you. It's a shame that the original context behind the 5 stages is so often misunderstood, which can leave those of us grieving wondering if we're doing something wrong when we don't follow the 'order'. I didn’t realise you’d written a book! Now that I know, it makes perfect sense :) I'd love to check out From Grief to Grace — it sounds like something I’d really connect with ✨
Hi Ruhie! YES! I would love to have a bigger conversation with you sometime about grief. I am now thinking it would be great to have a sort of roundtable discussion with @Susan Kuenzi , @Lynn Reilly , and @Jane Duncan Rogers sometime. Maybe via Zoom later this year? I’d have to see if these ladies would be interested in that, but I am seeing a lot of great information about grief and moving through grief from so many nuanced perspectives that it seems to me a bigger conversation is warranted and needed. What do you think?
I love this idea, Jeannie! There's so much to be gained from sharing our stories and having open conversations about grief and life after loss.
Great. Maybe we can start a group email? I know Substack Chat doesn’t have the option for group conversations, so everyone tagged here would have to agree to share their emails with me.
I’d love that!
It’s a good idea.
OK, let’s see what the others say, Sue. :)
Thank you for the clear, simple explanation of what Kubler-Ross' stages are and aren't. When I read an article or book on grief and the author misrepresents her work, I tend to discount the rest of what they say. I understand why people want to believe grief is linear and predictable. Human beings like simple models. Our brains crave predictability, which is one reason we have so much trouble with grief. As you said, our feelings come and go seemly at random, often when we are completely unprepared for them.
My biggest problem with the 5 stages is the misunderstanding that once you finish one, you never go backwards, when really grief is two steps forward, one back. I assume this is also true with anticipatory grief. Just because I accept my new reality today, doesn't mean I won't get slapped right back into denial or anger tomorrow.
Thank you for such a thoughtful comment, Donna! You’ve captured exactly why the five stages is widely misunderstood — we want simple answers, but grief doesn't work that way. That two steps forward, one step back pattern feels so real for so many of us. It’s a reminder that grief is messy and unpredictable, and that’s okay. I really appreciate you sharing your perspective here and adding to this important conversation 🙏🏼✨
I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking the 5 stages is...if not unhelpful, an incomplete framework. I have a section in my book where I talk about acceptance and one of the chapters is about how when I went through the 5 stages re: my disease, I oscillated between them constantly. I had never heard of the Dual Process Model before but that makes more sense!
Chris, thank you — I’m really glad this landed with you! I’ve always appreciated how honestly and thoughtfully you write about your own experiences, so your words mean a lot. I hadn’t heard of the Dual Process Model until a while ago either, but it really struck a chord with me. It just fits the reality of grief so much better — especially that constant oscillation you describe which I really relate to. That's so exciting about your book! Do you mean the one you recently finished writing? I can't wait to read it when it’s out. I have no doubt it will speak to so many people 🙏🏼
Thanks Ruhie! Wellll it's not "finished" but it's definitely getting close! A few more months I hope? (Fingers crossed...)
Healing does not mean forgetting,it means learning to live with both love and loss side by side
I'm so glad this line was meaningful to you, Ba! There is so much misunderstanding out there that healing means we "move on" and "get over it". But how can we move on when that person was so important to us and such a big part of our lives? It's impossible. We carry them in our hearts always and we never stop missing them. And yet, we keep living. Slowly but surely, we build a life they would be proud of — and more than that, one that is fulfilling for ourselves ❤️
Thank you so much !!! I needed to see and read this it makes me understand the process a lot better .
I’m really glad this resonated with you, Tabitha! There’s so much misunderstanding around the 5 stages of grief, and it means a lot to know this piece helped bring some clarity. Thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts 🙏🏼🫶🏽
Your welcome , my pleasure reading your piece thanks very much!!
I talk a lot about grief in my Substack Hands On Nursing in a Germ Factory. I started it about 2 months after my middle daughter died. I would say my grief journey looks a lot more like the "stages of grief" right hand chaotic journey through the 5 stages.
Although, anger has had little to do with my journey and instead sadness, longing and missing are a much larger part than depression. Having attended several Kubler-Ross inservice trainings as a young nurse, first when I was doing Pediatric Oncology nursing and later Rehab Nursing, I was fully aware that her linear journey was meant for anticipatory grief of someone who knew they were dying.
Mostly what I took from Kubler-Ross's stages was that I would experience various feelings or "stages." They would come and go, sometimes overlapping, never in any order, rather it would be messy and ok to lean into whatever feeling I'm feeling in that moment. That I, a traditionally impatient person, would need patience with my process.
I would agree, once past the intense pain of my daughter's death, I started the oscillating back and for between loss and learning how to live without her. Still, 19-months later, I sometimes succumb to deep sadness, longing and missing her. But these feelings last for moments, not hours or days.
Thank you for sharing such a personal and honest reflection, Nancy, and I’m so sorry for the loss of your daughter. I also relate strongly to the chaotic "stages" picture on the right! Grief is so individual — even when we know the models, the feelings don’t follow a neat path. I appreciate how you describe that back-and-forth between loss and figuring out how to live without those we've lost. That’s something a lot of people don’t talk about enough. And absolutely, learning to be patient with ourselves through all that is such a tough but important part of healing. I am so grateful to hear your story and insights here — it’s a powerful reminder that grief isn’t one-size-fits-all 🙏🏼💛
Thanks for exploring.
Neither model of grieving mentioned are fully viable options.
I say this based on my own experiences as well as my interactions with others navigating “loss.”
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, V.! I really appreciate hearing from others who are also navigating grief in their own ways. You’re absolutely right that no single model can ever fully capture how complex and deeply personal loss really is. My aim was to explore how this widely-known framework came about, how it can help some people make sense of parts of their grief journey, while also recognising its limitations and offering a different way of thinking about it. I’d love to hear more about what approaches have worked for you beyond models — what’s felt real or helpful in your experience. Grief varies so much from person to person, and learning from different perspectives helps us understand it better. Thanks again for being part of the conversation!
I understand your logic, reason, and goal behind this piece.
It’s important to discuss for sure.
I believe there is or better said could be a “universal” way to grieve.
I’m working on a book about it now.
The idea came to me last year. I drafted an outline and then stepped away from it.
I started to revisit it a few weeks ago as I see there is a growing need for it now.
That sounds like a meaningful project. There’s definitely space for more conversations and perspectives on grief, especially ones that explore shared experiences. Wishing you all the best as you continue working on it!
Thanks for your kind words of encouragement.
I’ll let you know when it’s closer to completion.
In the meantime the conversations need to continue surrounding this important topic that impacts everyone at some point.
No simple model of the human mind can ever be truly accurate. But human brains crave predictability, so we keep creating them. There's a saying in science: All models are wrong, but some are useful.
Thanks Donna, I couldn't agree with you more! There is so much truth in that saying. We recognise their limitations, take what is useful and leave the rest, right?